Amra 's Armchair Anecdotes

From Street Art to Gallery Walls: An interview with Lukas Kasper

• Amra Pajalic • Season 1 • Episode 14

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Melbourne-based artist Lukas Kasper shares his journey from skateboarding graffiti artist to internationally recognized muralist working across Australia, North America and Southeast Asia. His evolution from painting monsters to creating works exploring mental health, environmental awareness and our relationship with animals reveals how creative practices change and grow over time.

• Beginning his art career through graffiti and skateboarding culture while finding community and validation
• Taking initiative by approaching cafes and bars to host art shows when formal gallery access wasn't available
• Adapting artistic style to different contexts while maintaining integrity across commercial work
• Balancing commissioned projects with personal vision when working with councils and brands
• Starting teaching at 17 and continuing community engagement through school workshops and YouTube tutorials
• Creating a YouTube channel to share spray paint techniques and document artistic journey
• Participating in international residencies including recent work in Mongolia and China
• Experiencing a pivotal six-month residency in Wodonga that transformed his career trajectory
• Finding motivation and building networks as keys to sustainable artistic practice
• Managing the mental and financial challenges of being a full-time working artist


Amra Pajalic:

Welcome to Amra's Armchair Anecdotes. I'm Amra Pajalic, writer, teacher and storyteller. Pull up a chair and let's dive into stories about writing life and lessons learned, sharing wisdom from my armchair to yours. You can find the episode show notes, your free episode handouts and my how-to guides at amrahpayalichcom slash podcast. And now it's time to dive in. Welcome to Amra's Armchair Anecdotes. Today's guest is Melbourne-based artist, Lukas Kasper. He began his art in 2009 and he's inspired by street art, graffiti and skateboarding culture. He's best known for large-scale murals and public art projects. He blends bold line work, adaptive color palettes and his love of native flora and fauna, which look amazing. His work often explores themes of mental health, environmental awareness and our relationship with animals. He's painted walls and exhibited his work across Australia, North America and Southeast Asia, and includes art residencies and brand collaborations and community-focused workshops, and have shaped his transition in his practice over time. Welcome, Lukas.

Lukas Kasper:

Thank you, thanks for having me.

Amra Pajalic:

And well, Lukas is also an artist in residence here at the Hunt Club, so we've gotten to know each other through that, and so I'm so grateful that he has agreed to come on the podcast and he's also been helping me with the technical aspects, Trying to as much as I know. It has been a big learning curve for me. So your beginnings are sort of rooted in graffiti and street art and then you sort of shifted into gallery exhibitions and commissioned mural projects. Can you talk a bit through that?

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, well, I first started painting, yeah, just through, just through graffiti, just being a little kid figuring myself out and skateboarding, and you know, I found like a little community within that graffiti type of realm and a sense of like adulation in a in a weird way, because you know you'd see your stuff out in public and you're like I did that and you're running around at night like a little ninja painting and it's understandable why. Um, well, I could definitely understand why people become addicted to graffiti. At like, a younger age tends to be like a topic of discussion with a lot of people where they say to mural artists when you're painting, like I love this stuff, but I hate that tagging, which I can understand too, like it makes sense, but in those I definitely flashed back to being a kid and realizing how it can, like, completely captivate you. So, yeah, that's how I started, became addicted to painting graffiti and then I got in a bit of trouble here and there in Queensland yeah with, yeah, graffiti.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah, because I mean it is art. But then there's also that element of public spaces or even private spaces where it's being done.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, yeah, it's understandable why there's laws and stuff behind all of it, otherwise the place would be running rampant with graffiti everywhere. But, yeah, yeah, at that point, like I was also at a younger age I I used to, because I grew up in queensland I used to skate around the city when I was like really young, and I would drop into every cafe and bar and any place that would possibly hang artwork and I just asked, like you know, do you have walls that I can facilitate a show in?

Lukas Kasper:

that's amazing yeah, such initiative so, yeah, it was just grassroots like, especially in Queensland at that time, like you know, many years ago now, there wasn't many gallery spaces that was like accessible to like a young kid that only knew graffiti and knew nothing about the art world. So that's how I got my foot in the door. It's just showing through those spaces. Um, because, you know, while I'm at home I was still painting on canvases. Some were graffiti looking, some had characters that you know, all different types of work. I mostly painted them on things I'd find at op shops, so like recycled frames and canvases and, yeah, put on shows. I started curating spaces in the city, like at bars. There's this one bar in Queensland called Brew, it's like this really rad space and I used to do rotating shows once a month there and just sort of figured out what the gallery world sort of you know, looked like to me. So, yeah, I started showing, started painting more professionally and it just sort of naturally progressed.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah, I remember talking to you when you got a commission for something and you were like people are surprised that you can do that Like you are an artist, you know you do art like graffiti. Art is one part of it, but there's all this other, you know, just in terms of the mediums that you use and the different ways that you experiment, and sometimes that's a bit of a shame, where you know people get a little bit pigeonholed and you've managed to, I think, get out of that and do all these different things. Yeah.

Lukas Kasper:

I tend to be like a jam of all trades with that type of stuff. I mean, literally I'm out in the balcony right now in the studio cutting up things to create A-frames for, like, live painting events and all that. So I'm always doing something different and I think my style is similar in that way where I can vary from one thing to the next. Like as a public artist, you tend to have to fit the aesthetic of like where you're painting. Like I painted in a park for Brinkbank City Council not too long ago and you know I looked around and there was beautiful swans and ducks and all this.

Lukas Kasper:

So it was first thing that came to mind was doing, you know, some beautiful realism mixed with my style, because, yeah, it's not every setting that they would want some sort of graffiti-ish. You know, street art styling. Like even myself, like growing up I mostly just painted monsters, these little characters. And even for me, like I don't want a big one painted in my bedroom, you know, along the wall I look at it every day. I think it would be quite intimidating. But that out in, you know, melbourne laneway is like perfect, like it fits. It's sort of raw, it's gritty. So over time, like being a public artist. Having to answer briefs and looking at spaces and approaching them correctly has made me like vary my style a bit and be able to paint a lot of different things well, just I want to pick that up because you know that's one of the things when you are that, that artist and you're wanting to get those gigs and stuff.

Amra Pajalic:

It is about being able to interpret and be able to work with people, but then there's that aspect of being an artist and your vision and stuff. How do you navigate those two?

Lukas Kasper:

things. There's many challenges along the way, it's hard. It's hard. That's like riding that thin line is like the most challenging thing.

Lukas Kasper:

Like I'm, you know, I could really appreciate artists that like they have one style, that's what they paint and they paint that everywhere. People recognize them as that. I think that's awesome If you can you, you know push one visual aesthetic and have it appreciated to the point where you can just do that consistently. That's amazing. Um, but yeah, for me, I guess the first thing that came to mind was like monsters and some of these like creepy looking things. So I really had to vary out, and it puts me in moments where I have to answer a brief. That can be really challenging, but you just push through it. I've had jobs that they look like they're it's like a good payday, it's going to treat me well, it's a good spot and all this. But it's like the first two or three days I'm looking at it, I'm like I have nothing for this, but I always manage to get over the other side. And what's odd, too, is those are the jobs. They're usually the ones I look at the end and I go. I'm like super proud of it.

Amra Pajalic:

So it's that inspiration versus perspiration.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah.

Amra Pajalic:

Like, you know, do you do things just when you're inspired. But you have to actually like if you're going to be, you know, a working artist, a working writer, you have to be doing it even when you're not feeling it. In the moment you have to find it regardless.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, and that's why I'm here Like I'm in the studio pretty much every day. I'm not painting outside, I'm painting or like making something in here, like I always just sort of force myself. Sometimes I come in here and sit in my seat and like look at the wall for like two hours, nothing. But at least I'm here and yeah, it keeps me motivated it doesn't work.

Amra Pajalic:

You're kind of like okay, this is it. Something starts percolating because we don't have the tv. Like if we're at home and we've got the tv, we're like, oh, let's turn on the tv. But we're here and doesn't matter how tired I am, I still get some, some work done.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, yeah, and there's, like you know, I've got two kittens at home and they're very distracting. Yes, yeah.

Amra Pajalic:

I think there's so much more. Yeah, so I think we've touched on some of these things. You described that your monster theme line work was a therapeutic outlet and now you've sort of shifted towards mental health, animals and environmental themes. So can you sort of talk through that evolution?

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, I think the monster theme all started up more like subconsciously. There was not really an intention in my mind as to the reason why I was painting them, but I sort of figured out. It was like a natural thing. It was almost like a mandala you draw the center and you shape out and shape out and shape out, and it's quite a therapeutic process. It's how I used to approach the monsters. I'd do two eyes and I'd just work my way out, fill them in, line them up, and it was just this.

Lukas Kasper:

Arts always put me in the place where the negative thoughts just vanish. Um, line them up, and it was just this. Uh, you know, art's always put me in the place where the you know, the negative thoughts just vanish, and that's I. I realized, like, as I got you know older, um, that's what I was using it for. But, um, you know, over time you know you become a bit more mature and you sort of realize that maybe you want to make some type of statement or uh, put a specific visual into that. So that mesh that you know made me uh, start implementing in different things, like using those same methods, but maybe painting an animal or putting in, you know, putting an animal into it or different types of visuals like implementing in. So I guess yeah, it just started as monsters and now that'll be in pretty much everything I ever paint. You'll see that form of that practice. But I guess it holds more intent rather than just being a thing. I don't really know why I'm doing it, but I'm just doing it.

Amra Pajalic:

And that's the fascinating thing about being an artist there's always this subconscious element to it. And then people are asking you questions and you're like, all right, I'll try, and you know, package it. But at the end of the day there's a lot of that work, that cognitive work, that happens there yeah, it can be a weird thing, like it's, especially being in like the public space.

Lukas Kasper:

you know people ask you questions like what is yes, and like you don't have an answer.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah, yeah, you're like, oh, Sometimes when people are in my work and they're like, oh, you know, they said that, and I'm like, yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, I don't know. Yeah, but yeah, you're kind of there's so much of us on that. So you've had involvement in school murals and community art, creative workshops. So how has that community-based art evolved? And, you know, how have you gotten into that?

Lukas Kasper:

Well, I was your typical like disengaged kid in school. So I can definitely, you know I can relate to a lot of young people that are going through similar things. So I just really naturally found myself in situations where a school wanted to interact and do a workshop or do a mural or do whatever it is, and I tend to pitch the idea of like working with the kids. So it's actually strange, like the first place I ever taught I was probably 17, I think and it was for a place called oh god, what's it called? Oh yeah, it was for a place called noffs and it was n-o-f-f-s and they ran a program for the street university. I walked into this building one day because out the front there was a a-frame it says, like graffiti artists want it.

Amra Pajalic:

I was like, oh yeah, I was like you don't see that every day we're looking for you yeah.

Lukas Kasper:

So I walked in and um started painting. Like they gave me a bunch of paint. I painted the wall and said come back next week and bring your AVN. And I was like, yeah, cool, cool. I had no idea what an AVN was. So I went home, signed up for a sole trader AVN. That's how I got my first paid jobs. And I came back and they were like, yeah, you have a job, you're going to come back here once a week and you're going to run like art workshops graffiti art workshops with the young people. So I became a facilitator and the age demo that was working with I was working with people that were, you know, 10 years older than me.

Lukas Kasper:

So I was just like this kid didn't know how to teach, didn't know what to do, but you know, they're a really cool place where they realize that the people that should be teaching this stuff are the people that are part of that world. So I might have been younger, but that was my entire life. So I was in the right spot. I wasn't mature enough to teach. A lot of things stumped me, it was crazy.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah, teaching is a.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, so at a very young age I was just thrown into it with that and then I think every sort of teaching workshop type of situation since has been, uh, easier than what that was. So, yeah, I got thrown in the deep end and ever since, um, yeah, I just work with young people and schools and stuff all the time and I just love it.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah, and even now you're, in a sense, um, your youtube channel is very much focused on that teaching side of it, where it's about showing techniques and showing all these different things. So it says that's now become a part of your um, what would it call your tool, your toolbox?

Lukas Kasper:

yeah, yeah, and that's a big reason why I did. That is because I know a lot of kids don't have, say, the money to book like a workshop or you know, and it's a rare thing. If an artist comes to your school and you know you are that young person that wants to learn and all that it, you know it can be a rare thing. So for those kids that you know they don't have the money or they don't have the opportunity, or maybe they're even in a place around the world where street art or graffiti isn't like an accepted thing, like here in melbourne, they can at least go onto youtube and watch like heaps and heaps of videos and how to do it.

Amra Pajalic:

So yeah, and there is like we sort of make out sometimes, like you know, there has to be a way of learning and the gatekeeping part of some industries like my industry also in terms of writing but at the end of the day, like there is an element of you have a gift and you have a talent and it's something that you enjoy doing, and there's certain things that can be taught within that scope. But then there's certain things where it's just like you like it, you do it, it, you enjoy it and it's just creating those opportunities sometimes.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, and accessing information around spray paint and all these things. It's like a really tricky thing. You can't really go to school to be an artist and play with mediums, but with the stuff that I use, even if I spoke to art students, they probably wouldn't know what the caps are, the cans and all that stuff. So it's I don't know. I just saw a void where, like, a lot of people were in the dark and I decided to change that.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah, and you're doing really well with your YouTube channel, so it's really building an audience, and showing that niche is something that you found that does need to be filled. There is a need for it, which is just so heartening. Hopefully, have you had any feedback from any people that have sort of been?

Lukas Kasper:

doing it. Yeah, heaps. Yeah. It's been interesting seeing a lot of people go from, because if people are communicating, it's mostly on Instagram or they'll start following me there and they send me like a big message and yeah, I've had heaps, it's really yeah, yeah, it's really paying off. A lot of people are saying how much it's helped them and all this and the tutorial stuff has definitely been the stuff that's like blown up my channel well as an aspiring youtube.

Amra Pajalic:

You know, I look at you and I'm like, oh, but you, you're really um doing the work with it in terms of the ideas and generating and recording every week and developing that content and doing the themes in terms of, you know, building these videos so that they're beautifully cohesive and sort of doing that support. So, yeah, there's a lot of work behind the scenes that goes into it.

Lukas Kasper:

It takes away from my painting time. I spend more time editing the video than I do painting whatever artwork that I'm doing. So, tutorials are a bit easier because you talk for a little while and you know that can be a minute. But a minute worth of like a painting edit takes, you know, five hours to edit. Yes, because you're actually doing it, and then you're having to like shorten it, yeah, and then slow-mo, and then this yeah, it's a lot of work.

Amra Pajalic:

Is it leading, though, to more opportunities in terms of people seeing you who might not have seen you before, and getting more work in that way, too?

Lukas Kasper:

I think so. I don't know how much it's translating to projects coming through. It's hard to say, even with brand collaborations. If they see you have a YouTube channel and there's 10,000 people that are watching you and you have a bit of a following, that stuff can really help you in those ways, in small ways. You might not even hear from them. This is the reason why we were attracted, like attracted to you as an artist, so in that way it can help. I don't know how many like councils with budgets and stuff are seeing those videos, but all in all, I also don't care too much about like that side of things, like I really find a strong level of connection to like just documenting, having video and they can look back on and like in many, many years from now and like 40 years if YouTube's still a thing and it's not Monday, yes, I'm sort of thinking in that way of I can't wait to look back when I'm, you know, 60 years old, at videos when I was like a 28-year-old kid I love that, yeah.

Lukas Kasper:

So it's like I'm collecting, like my memory is horrible too, so it's like I'm collecting these little pieces and so I just get a kick out of just documenting. I really love it.

Amra Pajalic:

I love that. That's a really great way of thinking about it. Yeah, Because you know, I have these moments also where it's like why am I doing things and what am I doing? But my philosophy is just create things and put them out there and see it. But that's an even better philosophy where it's like you're documenting for yourself and then anything else gravy, yeah, it's just beautiful gravy, oh that's awesome.

Amra Pajalic:

Well, you talked about your um, that you have been working with brands, so you worked with like amazon, australia and doritos um. So you know what was there like with like that transition into commercial work and artistic principles and you know melding those two uh, like every every collaboration is different depending on who you're speaking to.

Lukas Kasper:

I think the hardest thing I found is when you work with big brands, you don't work with them, you work with the people that are between them. So it's this weird chain effect thing where a lot of creative ideas can get watered down very quickly because if you're speaking to one team and then they speak to a team, and then they speak, and it keeps going up the ladder. By the time it comes back down the ladder you're like this. You know, it's interesting how you, when you first get approached, you feel like special, like I'm leading this thing, but then, as time goes on, you realize you're just like a cog in the wheel. You know which it's I mean. But not every partnership feels that way.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah, yeah which it's I mean, but not every partnership feels that way.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, yeah, but some places it's more creatively driven, some are not. I think if a brand comes to me, they probably know what to expect, but, like I said, with so many you know, with so many people along the way, it can often be misunderstood a little bit. So it's a real challenge to like create a product that is, or like to be a part of a project that remains your style and your vision and everything along the way.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah, again, going back to that versus commerce, and when you're making art for people and they're paying you for it. Because I'm of the view as a writer, I've reached this point now where, if people want to, you know, buy a piece of writing I don't care what it is they suggest, I'm like accept, accept, accept, I'm not precious. But I also haven't been in a position where I've had to compromise. You know where I'm like oh, I'm not sure about that. I'm like, no, that's fine. Yeah. Compromise you know where I'm like oh, I'm not sure about that. I'm like, no, that's fine.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah, but it is always that line that you walk, where you know you are working for someone and just trying to see that big vision in terms of that end and that document, as you're talking about, in terms of this is what you did, this is what you're a part of. Yeah, I remember buying. I went to 7-Eleven and I bought the Doritos, and I don't eat Doritos, but I did eat them just because I wanted to see it. Yeah, because I'm like this is so cool. I just want to be a part of this where I know someone who did this.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah.

Amra Pajalic:

Which is really fabulous. Now you've done residencies across the world and I think he just came back from it. Yeah, yeah, just came back from mongolia and china. Yeah, that's crazy tell me about that.

Lukas Kasper:

Um, I went over to mongolia to paint in a thing called playtime festival and that is a it's like a music festival but they set up walls around the location. It's in a place called um ulaanbaatar, which is a like a main city in mongolia, and, yeah, painted in the festival. That was four days and then I went on like a little outback trip to check out mongolia to get inspiration for future paintings. But I decided I wanted to make more of a trip out of it. So I um booked like a train from mongolia to like inner molia, just on the Chinese border, and then from there to Beijing.

Lukas Kasper:

I just wanted to spend a month trying to find walls, find opportunities, just to get my stuff up internationally and meet artists and get inspiration. So it was one month of just chaos and living out of a backpack and getting you know electric bikes where we to get here and there and paint and trying to get permission. So it was just one month of a crazy adventure. That's amazing, yeah, and it's super important to do that stuff. It's incredible how much you get out of it, even subconsciously, going forward. I feel like, since I come back, my battery just feels like recharged with inspiration and ideas. There's way more things I want to do and yeah, I do that all the time. I did that in Bali, I did that in Canada. I just fly over places and try to figure it out.

Amra Pajalic:

Love it. I just love it, and that's the thing isn, isn't it? I've got to take those risks yeah you've got to just put yourself out there and it's about living life and contributing. Um, yeah, you're giving me ideas. There's planting a lot of ideas now. Um, so, looking back, what was the biggest pivot moment of your career? Could you like pinpoint one transition, do you think?

Lukas Kasper:

um a pivot, to like chat, like changing my approach.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah, it was something like a big change, where you transition down one thing to another where you're like oh, that was a. I mean I guess a little bit. You've already talked about the teaching yeah or a figure that's 17 years old and how that um really kind of changed in getting this skill set.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah.

Amra Pajalic:

Is there anything else?

Lukas Kasper:

I think. Well, there was one like major project that I did that I learned a lot from and I sort of put my artwork on the larger scale, I think, which was in Wodonga, albury, wodonga, right on the New South Wales border between Victoria, new South Wales, a town called Wodonga, albury, wodonga, right on the New South Wales border between Victoria and New South Wales, a town called Wodonga, and I went there for a six-month artist residency, I guess you'd call it, where I worked for the council full-time. I got a budget for paint which was insane and, yeah, got my own little rental van and went around. My mission was just to paint walls for six months. So during that period I think Like I already took my work very seriously and all that. But I think it's almost like, when I look back, I think of my practice before Wodonga and after Wodonga, almost like it was like that level and up point and it really pushed me to like a next level, I think I think I got taken a little bit more seriously.

Lukas Kasper:

I wasn't just a you know guy painting in laneways and occasionally getting commissions. I was doing these large, grand artworks that are now held in their art collection and it was a big thing, so that was a huge opportunity. I think that pivoted me. It was in the perfect time where I was ready to move out of a big cold warehouse like communal space to my own spot like this. And, yeah, I think that when I think about a pivoting moment, I probably think back to that. It's almost like my direction changed completely after that project.

Amra Pajalic:

Were you applying for that? Because that's something that we've talked about, where you're always kind of looking for opportunities and applying for grants and applying for residencies, and that's a big part of this life that we live. So can you talk about that, like, how have you learned to do that? What are the things you've learned through that?

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, so that was an application and it was over COVID. Oh, yes, yeah, through that. Yeah, so that was application and it was over covid. So, yeah, so there's all these different little funding streams, activations and things like that. So, uh, udongo was one council as well as there was a few others that ran this program where, yeah, they just opened up a six month residency for public artists to paint in spaces. So when I I got to Odongo, there was also like a new videographer and there was like an accountant and just standard jobs within the council. But then, like, my role was very odd and they popped that up. But, yeah, I went through an expression of interest process and I continue to do those all the time as well. Like I said, I'm in here every day and if one day I don't have ideas or a commission or it's slow for a little bit, I'll plug back in and have a look. I think a really awesome website for artists of all different backgrounds would be Arts Hub.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, it's got a lot of different opportunities grants, um, yeah, a lot.

Amra Pajalic:

So I always sort of plug back into there and a few different streams, see what's going on and maybe put together an expression of interest there's no one, that the more that you do it, the more it becomes routine in a certain way, and that you have all these assets and all this information that you can package up for these different things.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, like it forces you to do things like update your CV.

Amra Pajalic:

Yes, we're never doing this unless we've got this thing. No way.

Lukas Kasper:

I'm not just going to like, it's like the worst. I hate doing that so much. So sometimes, when you're applying for something and it's important, you're like okay, the last thing that's written on my CV you can't say like 2024. It has to at least say this year, mine does.

Amra Pajalic:

I need to update mine.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah.

Amra Pajalic:

Like, yeah, that's the thing, it is a workload and also sometimes deadlines. When there's things that I want to do and I know that they're coming up, like I start keeping an eye on, I'll put the deadlines in my calendar where it's like, okay, this is the thing. So it becomes like a work thing and a friend of mine she's like you know you've got to be in it. If you don't ask, it's never going to happen. And this is the thing If you don't put yourself in there and you don't try, you never know what's going to happen. And look at you like, if you've built up those networks and all of those opportunities and I mean I just also wanted to highlight you're one of the few people that I know who is actually a full-time working artist, and this is you actually living off your art. So all of these different streams that you're doing are so important also from that perspective.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah.

Amra Pajalic:

That hustle and always having something going on.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, it's a hustle, it's like the hardest. The hardest thing I've ever done is being an artist and before this I've worked in every type of job from uh yeah, like roofing and concreting and um, construction, landscaping. I was a piece of delivery boy, I was a dog groomer. I was like I've done, I was grocery shop, all that stuff like, especially the hard working you know hard yards in queensland sweating in the heat and you'd think that would be harder than being an artist, but it's, it doesn't even touch it yeah like the mental strain, always having to have ideas, always having to build and be better next painting, be better and the pressure you have on yourself and being completely reliant financially on what you produce is a lot of pressure.

Lukas Kasper:

And so it's like this, mental and physical, and the time it takes to do it, it's um, it's, it's a lot yeah, and that we don't talk enough about that do we yeah you know, like we all have this dream of I want to be full-time, this is what I want to do full-time.

Amra Pajalic:

but when you like, I've only had very brief moments where I've I've done it. Um, I've always had sort of the secure income and during those brief moments when that's been everything, it is so much more Like every no just feels a little bit harder. I don't know, you're just so much more raw on a daily basis because it is so much more important, whereas now I work as a teacher and then you know I've got the sign hustle and I'm like, oh all good, I'm fine, it's easy. And so I have that fantasy, but it's good to really be aware of. You know what it means. Like it does come with a whole other aspect to it.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah.

Amra Pajalic:

You know everyone dreams about the time to just create, but you've got to make money from it.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, To pay the bills, and that's the thing too. It's like it isn't for everybody like being doing it as like a full-time practice. Yeah, I've met a lot of artists that have like done that and then been like, no, I need to. Just even if they have a studio at home and they're just there every day and they just go a little bit crazy, you know, they might just pick up a job that they do like one day a week, even if it just is for like the mental stability. Yes, it's a grind. Just pursuing like a creative endeavor full time, I think it can be. Yeah, it can really play with you in a negative way if you're not smart with how you approach it.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah, I'm starting to get to a point in my life where I'm like I can face the hard truths and I don't. I'm starting to get to a point in my life where I'm like I can face the hard truths and I don't think I've got it in me. I don't think I want to. You know that is a lot of strain.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah.

Amra Pajalic:

And, yeah, like I dream about the time, but the other part of it it's like, oh, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if I'm going to deal with that. If I could have the time, if I won the lottery, yeah, that would work. Yeah, you know. So I do play every week, every week, nice. So just last question what advice would you give to someone who's sort of doing what you're doing, you know, pivoting from street art into more professional or commercial, and you know what mindset or actions have made the difference for you and might help them?

Lukas Kasper:

I think motivation is going to be the biggest thing for anybody. It doesn't matter how talented you are. I've met so many painters, drawers, you know, creatives that are incredible at what they do, like absolutely incredible but maybe they don't have the motivation or they don't want to build a website. Maybe they don't have the motivation or they don't want to build a website or they don't want to do those things that are going to get them to that next level. So, like, motivation is going to be huge for you.

Lukas Kasper:

I know a lot of artists, like they have a lot of self-deprecation, but with me saying this, like I was a terrible artist for a long time and it was just that motivation of doing it every day. I got better. Now I do it as a full-time living I have for quite a long time, so I think I really realize how motivation is huge within it. So, if you love it, you want to do it every day. Make sure you do that, even if you have, like you know, a job, which I did for many, many years too.

Lukas Kasper:

Um, another one I think is really big for pushing your practice far in a much quicker way is to maybe like reach out to other artists that are doing what you want to do. You don't have to ask like um sort of a boring question like how did you get to where you are? Like. You can even just ask if you can. Uh, like, if you're in the painting world, you could ask if they're, if they're around public and painting, can you come or can you? You know, interact, just interact with people, and it's incredible how much um momentum that can give you. It's that's how you find yourself in the right places. A lot of people I mean within the art standard saying is like it's not what you know, it's who you know, and that is, a lot of times, very true.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah, but it's also about building those genuine networks. I sometimes find people think that they could just sort of randomly pop in, but it's like you've actually got to build that genuine connection and, as you say, if they come and they're interacting with you while you're painting, while you're doing your practice, then they're showing interest. You've got that, you know connection. But sometimes it's like when people are just sort of contacting you and wanting things and it's like, well, create that. You know those moments.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, yeah, like it has to be, like a genuine connection.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah.

Lukas Kasper:

Yeah, like if I had a young kid that was 15 or whatever that wanted to come and paint and sent me a message and say Instagram, I'd probably message you back when I'm going to a laneway and we might paint and like for me. It took me so long to learn the basics. Instagram, I probably message you back when I'm going to a laneway and we might paint and like for me. It took me so long to learn the basics of how all this stuff even works. But you know, within a 30-minute conversation with an established artist, I probably would have learned like 10 years of experience just to be there. So I think communication, and especially where we are today with social media, it's so easy to reach out to people and it's not like back in the day, where you know people that are established are these huge figures that you could never talk to. They never message back, like artists that you might appreciate might message you back. They might not, who knows, but if they do, it could lead to anything.

Amra Pajalic:

Yeah, and you know, I do love that part of social media, how you create all these networks and connections with people, and sometimes I think, have I actually met them in real life? Because online we've kind of got that rapport. I'm like I don't think I've actually met them, but online there's all of those things happening, so it's really wonderful. Well, I want to thank you so much for joining me for this interview and thank you for being so generous and having so much to share. Of course, that's been wonderful, thanks for having me.

Lukas Kasper:

You caught me on a day where I'm just next door.

Amra Pajalic:

Yes, well, this is the thing we have the joy we are right next door to each other and, yes, he's figured out how to help me with my camera, because that has been a very interesting journey. You should have seen me a few weeks ago, me and my husband trying to figure out the microphone on this camera. We were like that do, do, do, do, do, do Monkeys, not knowing what we're doing. Well, thank you, Lukas.

Lukas Kasper:

I appreciate it.

Amra Pajalic:

So join me next time at Amra's Armchair Anecdotes. Thank you for tuning into Amra's Armchair Anecdotes. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe and follow for more insights, stories and inspiration from my armchair to yours. Remember, every story begins with a single word.