%20ep%2020.jpg)
Amra 's Armchair Anecdotes
Welcome to Amra’s Armchair Anecdotes! I’m Amra Pajalić—
writer, teacher, and storyteller. Pull up a chair, and let’s dive into
stories about writing, life, and lessons learned—sharing wisdom
from my armchair to yours.
Amra 's Armchair Anecdotes
Early Menopause, Real Talk: A conversation with Antoinette about POI
We share Antoinette’s story of premature ovarian insufficiency at 41, the harm of being dismissed, and the relief and clarity that came with HRT. We open up about rage, insomnia, brain fog, grief over lost choice, and how to advocate for better care at home, work, and in the clinic.
• early signs ignored and misattributed to stress
• navigating GP knowledge gaps and delayed referrals
• emotional crash, rage, intrusive thoughts, loss of empathy
• cognitive fog, sleep loss, night sweats, skin changes
• POI realities, fertility grief, and identity repair
• evidence‑based HRT as mechanism‑level treatment
• cardiometabolic and bone health risks and screening
• boundaries, relationships, and clearing energy drains
• workplace adjustments and policy awareness
• how to find menopause‑literate clinicians and resources
If you enjoyed today’s episode, don't forget to subscribe and follow for more insights, stories, and inspiration
Welcome to Amra’s Armchair Anecdotes! I’m Amra Pajalić—writer, teacher, and storyteller. Pull up a chair, and let’s dive into stories about writing, life, and lessons learned—sharing wisdom from my armchair to yours.
Episodes are posted every second Monday.
You can subscribe on your favourite podcast app including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, PodcastIndex, YouTube, or RSS, all directories
Episode show notes are transcripts at https://www.amrapajalic.com/podcast.html
Welcome to Amherra's Armchair Anecdotes. I'm Amrapa Lich, writer, teacher, and storyteller. Pull up a chair and let's dive into stories about writing, life, and lessons learned, sharing wisdom from my armchair to yours. You can find the episode show notes, your free episode handouts, and my how-to guides at amrage.com slash podcast. And now it's time to dive in. So today I'm speaking with Antoinette, a single mum, an admin worker, and someone who was thrown into full menopause at just 41. So while raising two young kids on her own, she suddenly found herself dealing with hot flushes, insomnia, brain fog, and the emotional crash of premature ovarian insufficiency. Her story is raw, honest, and far too common, even though hardly anyone talks about it. So Antoinette is here to share what it's really like when your hormones implode years too early, and life doesn't give you a moment to breathe. Welcome, Antoinette. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thank you. So you're here because we've we've had, we've really bonded over our menopause journeys and the things that our bodies have done and what we've gone through. Yeah. And so this kind of came about as we were talking and we were like, we want more women to know about these things because you went through premature aviarian insufficiency. Yeah. I've gone through psychosis in menopause. And we had a lot of the similar um symptoms in terms of our body. We did. Yeah. And then also like just kind of try and find people to help us and try and find that support.
Antoinette:Yeah, it's amazing how I felt like I was going through something, but I didn't know who to turn to. And you and a few others, we we sort of just found each other and we were all going through it at the same time.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah, that's what I'm finding now, that most of the support and help that I'm getting has been through talking to other women going through the same thing, and where we are sort of helping support and you know, check this out, try this, look at this. Um, but thankfully that there is a little bit more now of things coming out in terms of the media and and stories being shared. Yeah. So that is helpful. So I just wanted to start with um the moment when you realised something wasn't right with your body.
Antoinette:Yeah, look, I think I started to feel something was off when I was about 39 years old. Um, my periods were just all over the place. Um, one month, really heavy bleeding, really painful periods. The next month, hardly any bleeding at all. Cycle was just inconsistent, all over the place. And I thought maybe I should just go and get checked out. And I asked myself the question: could this be the start of perimenopause or menopause? Um, and I went to see my GP. Um, I asked her that question, and of course, no, you're too young, you're only 39, not possible. We'll just run some tests, you know, we'll do some blood tests, we'll send you off for a an internal scan, and we'll have a look at the results. And of course, everything came back normal, and I was told to just it's okay, get on with it. There could just be a little bit of stress, you're fine. Um, but I knew deep down that something was changing within me, um, but I just wasn't being heard.
Amra Pajalic:No, and that's the thing that I'm I'm sort of discovering. A lot of GPs do not have enough training in menopause, which is shocking when you look at 50% of the population and all of us are going to go through it. Yeah. Um, so they don't really have training, they don't really know about it, they don't know the symptoms. And then even in terms of the testing that they do, yeah. How I mean, like even if they do test your hormones, the only way they're going to pick it up exactly is if your hormones if you go into a hot flush in that moment anyway, or not. So um, yeah, there is there is a lot of that, and and there's a lot of us that were talking about that when we were like, because I went to my um GP also, who I've been to for I don't know, 17 years. Yeah. Um, and it's like, oh, I'll just take some supplements. Yeah. And I'm like, um, yeah, but um, so what did you think?
Antoinette:Did she be blaming stress and you were you were thinking? I felt like maybe my GP was gaslighting me a little because yeah, she would say things like, you know, you're a you're a mum, you've got two kids, you're working, you're balancing a lot, it just it's just stress. And she even said to me, Maybe try some primrose oil, that could help. And I thought that to me felt like, you know, when you've got a virus and you go to the doctor and they say, just take some panodol, you'll be fine. Yes. I just felt dismissed. Yeah. And um, you know, this continued. Uh, these uh I was actually getting more and more symptoms as time went on. I started with hot flushes, I became really um, I felt like I was losing my resilience. Oh my god. Like my emotional resilience wasn't there anymore. And that's when I said to myself, something is not right. I just know I'm not myself. And I had to keep going back until she finally said, okay, okay, we'll run some more tests. So you had to persist with the same doctor. I had to persist with the same doctor. And then one day, um, yeah, I was really fighting for myself and advocating for myself with my GP by being seen for years. And she said, Okay, we'll run some tests. We'll deeper look into your hormones. Um, and when we got the results back, she looked at me and said, I owe you an apology. Wow. Yeah, so powerful. Yep, I owe you an apology. You were right. Um, she had a look at my levels and she said to me, You actually are showing signs of someone who's post-menopausal, and I don't know what to do here. Oh, yes. And that was really confronting for me. Yes. Um that's not what I was expecting at all. Yes. I thought maybe it's the start of perimenopause, but I was showing signs of post-menopause. Yes. And she said, I need to refer you on.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah.
Antoinette:And so what was the treatment of the like? What what what was the journey? So she um did give me a referral to see a gynecologist, but I felt that I wanted to speak to someone who may just know a little bit more about women's health and um postmenopausal symptoms because I didn't know what the hell that meant for me.
Amra Pajalic:No, because like that's the other thing. We don't really like, you know, we we we now know that perimenopause is as our ovaries. So we're failing and we're losing our estrogen, and we're going through all these fluctuations. Yeah. Then eventually all the estrogen goes, your body settles down, yeah, and then you're in post-menopause, and that perimenopause might last 10 years. Correct, you know, and so now we know all of these things. Um, but when I first started going through it, I didn't even have the words for what was it. Yeah. And like I remember you and I, we were talking about all of the same symptoms. Our skin was going dry, we were so uncomfortable, our hair, like we're, you know, losing. Oh my gosh. But the thing that really concerned me is when we were talking about our moods, like the way we felt so great, like there was no joy in life at all. I thought I had a mental illness. Yeah. Yeah, because I I don't know about you, but I think you're sort of similar to me. We're both quite positive and we always look, you know, we're optimists. We're upbeat people. Yes. We always look for the for the good. Uh if we're having bad moments, we vent and we we have those moments, but we just kind of try and move forward as much as possible. And also as mothers, we have to.
Antoinette:Yes.
Amra Pajalic:You know, we really don't have a choice. Yeah. And with you, you've got much younger kids. But we were talking about the fact that we were so dark and that lack of resilience. Yeah, it is so hard when you are, we're juggling all these hats. We're juggling the mother hat, the worker hat, the, you know, um, if we've got other roles in our families and you know, so much. And then we always have to be the strong ones. Yeah. We always have to be the s the ones who find solutions, who maintain emotional equilibrium, who set the temperature in the household. And I became a psycho. Oh yeah, psycho. Like one day my daughter was singing, and I had to send her out of the room, and it took me an hour to calm down from my rage. Oh, yeah. Even though there was a part of my brain going, This is psycho, she is happy. Your daughter is happy. How wonderful is that? Yes. And she's expressing it by singing in that moment, but I was so irritable. Oh, so irritable.
Antoinette:By that feeling.
Amra Pajalic:Because I I went to uh a GP and I said, um, because I found someone at Australasian Society of Metaphors. Me too. Yes, and that's the other thing. We don't know these things. We don't know these things. We don't know these things. So this is where where our little coven helped us, where we were talking to each other, and we're like, there's this Australasian society of menopause where you can find a list of GPs who are training themselves and learning about menopause, and you go see them, and as soon as you see them, they start you on the journey to sort of help you. But you know, like we're we're battling with people who don't know. And I don't know how you were, but I I hated myself.
Antoinette:I hated myself too. I just thought, who am I? Yes, who's this person I'm becoming? Why am I so miserable and irritable and I hate life? I hate everyone. I don't want anyone around me. I know that's that hatred of everyone.
Amra Pajalic:Yes. And everyone, and like I remember at work, um, everyone was irritating me, and then they I received an email from a coworker who is the gentlest and sweetest person you could ever meet in your life. And he sent an email, and the email was like very benign, very, but he just expressed an opinion and I did not like that opinion. Yeah, I lost, and I went, I think there's something wrong with me. Yeah. Because if I am feeling this about every single person, but even these lovely people that I can see are lovely people, I think it's me.
Antoinette:That's that I think that is so common. We just get to this point where we realize yeah, we start to look within and go, okay, uh we're the problem here. Like what what do we need to do now to get the support and get the help that we need? Yeah. To get back to the people we are.
Amra Pajalic:The people we are, because it feels like you go into this darkness. And the other thing that a lot of people don't realize is, you know, our um age group of women, high societ uh, high suicide rates. And I had a friend who got suicidal um and had a breakdown and was like, you need to help me right now um and give me some treatment. So, you know, like so how long did it take you? Like that whole journey with your GP, how long did it take? It took a good nearly two years.
Antoinette:Oh yeah, two years on the city. I took two years because, like I said, she kept dismissing me, she kept blaming stress lifestyle. Uh, try this supplement, try that supplement. No, you're too young, you're too young, you're too young. I heard that so many times. And then when I finally went in at 41 years old and said, I am begging you to please run further tests because I know something is not right. I it was explaining I had hot flushes, I had insomnia, I had anxiety, I hated my life, I hated everyone around me. I couldn't even look after my children the way I wanted to because I was so snappy and irritable. Yeah, that's what really got to me. That's what got to me too.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah. Because when we when we look at the way we're treating our children, yeah, and we're supposed to be their safe place, it's like, okay, this is really not good. This is not good. That's right. And I feel so horrible as a person where you're like, how could I how could I be doing this to my own kids?
Antoinette:Yeah. But you can't help it. I know. It's really something you just can't control. And that's one thing I've also found for me is that I'm normally very calm and regulated. I'm very good at regulating my emotions, but I just couldn't during that time.
Amra Pajalic:Well, I actually realized because for me, I I went into psychosis and actually thought I was being haunted by a ghost, which I do believe in ghosts, so you know, I still might be being haunted by a ghost, but the problem was that every time I closed my eyes, there was like an apparition coming at me. And it got to a point where every time I slept, I was just screaming and screaming and screaming. That's and so I'm on hormone of plasma therapy, but I am also on anti-psychotics. Yeah. And so when I got put on anti-psychotics because of the history of bipolar and my family, and I've had uh insomnia in the past so badly that I have had psychosis previously. In my twenties, um, I didn't sleep for like months, and I thought there was a man living in the ceiling of our house. And my husband had to go get a uh a ladder and climb up and prove to me through logic and reasoning uh that there was no one living in the ceiling. Yeah, in that state. Yeah, yes. So things got really bad. But when I went onto the anti-psychotics, I actually realized that um rage has been a big part of my life. And then as I went into um into perimenopause, that it just exploded. And then when when because this it it helps me sleep, but it also just gives me that, you know, and and the woman almost just like calming. Yeah, and so I feel like I am the best version of myself I've ever been, where I just feel so much more like you know how you have a dream of who you want to be, and so I always wanted to be more of a karma person. Someone who could actually regulate a little bit, not say the first thing that pops into my mouth. And I'm like, oh, I'm actually that person now, but I could not get there without the pharmaceu pharmaceuticals. I know. It was not an epiphany, it is pharmaceuticals because biology betrayed us.
Antoinette:It betrayed us absolutely so much. Um, you know, I think for me too, one thing I really struggled with is because it did happen to me a lot younger than it does for most women. Yes, because I'm 48. Yeah, I'm 41. And I felt robbed of the years I thought I had ahead of me before I had to worry about any of this. Yes. And that's been really hard for me to get my head around.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah, because for me, I'm because I'm 48 and I'm looking at 50, I'm like, I'm happy to be in this stage. Um, and you know, I'm like I I'm okay with it. And yeah, but it it I did go through in my early 40s, I went through a lot of grief as I realized that I wasn't going to have any more children. Yeah. Yeah, even though like I was very happy because I did have a second pregnancy but didn't succeed. But then I did go through a lot of grief where I was like, that's it, that is being cut off. And you didn't even have the warning.
Antoinette:No, it was just that's it. That is one thing I wanted to say today, too, is that you know, this can just happen to you without warning. Your body does not ask you for permission for this to happen. And that was really mentally challenging for me. And I remember the beautiful doctor that I am seeing now who has put me on HRT and helped me get through this really difficult time. Um, when she diagnosed me with POI, she said to me, Um, you know, are you are you married? And I said, Look, I am separated. She said, So does that mean you are done having children? And I said, Are you telling me that I won't be able to? She said, Yeah, that's what I'm telling you. And it's not that I wanted more children, but having that taken away from you. Yes, when it doesn't feel like your choice. When it doesn't feel like your choice is so hard. And you have to grieve that process. Yes, yeah.
Amra Pajalic:Because I I also felt like that choice was thrust onto me because of financial circumstances and other things. Um, also with the fact that my pregnancies, I was very ill from them.
Antoinette:Yeah.
Amra Pajalic:And so I realized that um I can't physically put my body through that again. Yeah. Um, but the grief, because it's like, yeah, you're you're having to accept what's put onto you rather than be making that decision for yourself. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. My throat has just gone rhythmy and break. I'm gonna check the time, 1747, and come here and because this is the thing that does this. Of course, because it's a lot of talking. Well, I've been doing a lot of talking.
Antoinette:I never stopped talking.
Amra Pajalic:I talk about it. Before you came, I was talking to um Tanya for 45 months. I love that. That was my warm-up. All right, I think we shall launch back into it. So, um, I think we I think we've actually covered a lot. Oh, yeah, I think also one of the symptoms that I sort of wanted to talk about that we've touched on, so you know, I think a lot of people know about the hot flushes and the fact that you know your body like I would go into a rage. Oh my god. Yeah, like it actually sends you into a complete and utter rage.
Antoinette:The flushes? Yes, they're just intense. Like I've never experienced anything like that. I remember feeling all this heat just rising from the bottom all the way up, and I would have to strip off my clothes. I was sweating. Yes, and I thought, what the hell is happening? Yeah, it's intense.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah, because I remember having a hot flush in the classroom with students, oh my gosh, and I actually kind of blacked out in a rage, and I just remember the next day um one of my lovely students looked at me with his big blue eyes and said, Miss Baileage, please don't be angry with us the way you were yesterday. Oh, and I went, I'm a monster, I'm a monster, like just um, and I had to change rooms because that was in the library where the heating was turned up, and I was like, nah, I I need to be cool. Um, but the fascinating thing is as soon as I started the hormone replacement therapy, so you know I do the estradiol gels, yeah, and the progesterone, I've got implin on, so I don't have to take progesterone. Do you take the progesterone? I take the tablet, yep. Yeah.
Antoinette:As soon as I started that, gone. Oh, gone. One thing we need to talk about is how amazing is HR taking? I know. Because I felt like a brand new woman. Yes. And probably day four of taking it. Yes. It works so quickly. It works so quickly, it's incredible.
Amra Pajalic:And one of the frustrating things is so now um, you know, there's been walking back because it was linked to breast cancer, but that was actually the progesterone that was being prescribed at the time. And so a whole generation of women have been screwed over when they haven't gotten access to it. Oh, I'm so sad for them. I know, I know, because now all of us, like so many women I know, are are using it. And, you know, all of these symptoms that we had, so even the brain fog, yeah, you know, as your estrogen goes down, the receptors in your brain are not operating as well. And your cognitive, there's a like a cognitive decline.
Antoinette:Absolutely.
Amra Pajalic:Where you know, you have the the word farts and you the thinking is really hard. Like I just remember like thinking on a day-to-day basis was so hard, and even making decisions of what am I gonna order? Yeah, am I gonna do this or am I gonna do that? Like, just it was really, really hard. It is, and then for me, I also had sexual dysfunction where everything just went lights out.
Antoinette:Oh my body stopped working. There's no desire, no. There's no yeah, I felt empty. Yes, yeah, I felt empty.
Amra Pajalic:But it's also like you lose desire, but you also lose joy, you lose empathy. Yeah, like I I turned into a full sociopath.
Antoinette:I actually remember saying this to someone, I can't remember who it was, but I think someone might have had a baby in the family. And normally news like that would bring you some joy. Oh my god, that's amazing. And I remember just going, yeah. And I thought, that's not normally how I would react to that news. No, no, you know, I just had no empathy.
Amra Pajalic:No. I I I mean, I I actually went through a period of repulsion by babies. Me too. Yeah, me too. To be honest, it's still a little bit there, but it was so bad that if I saw a baby, I think I still do it to be honest, hide. I can't look at it. It looks so like frail and fragile and so like, and um, I just start thinking about I get these, oh that's the other thing, the intrusive thoughts where your brain just does these really weird things. And so I would get these intrusive thoughts where I would just imagine the baby falling and smashing. Oh, and just like, and so I I have to run away and hide because then I'm also like, if this poor woman who is, you know, a new mother who has just had a baby looks at me and sees this revulsion on my face, that is a horrible thing to do to someone. Yeah, so I have to hide. I have to like hide.
Antoinette:At least you're aware of it though. Yeah, you can manage it.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah, it's a bit better now, yeah. But oh my gosh, at one point, and then like the full sociopath where I just didn't feel anything for anyone.
Antoinette:I felt that too, and that was a big warning sign for me that something was off because I feel everything. I'm a very emotional, empathetic person. Yes, and I just lost that, yeah. Lost that part of me.
Amra Pajalic:And and you just kind of you feel yourself transforming, and like I actually felt like I was turning into a monster. And you know, even like my husband, I mean, I've been married for 28 years, we have been through a lot. And so, you know, you are at this stage of your marriage where um less patience for certain things. But I oh my gosh, I would just go at him and he would be sitting there and just crying, and just literally crying. And I would just keep just pouring lava and then I would be like, should I stop? He's like if if it helps you, and and I would be like, Oh, okay, but I didn't care. Yeah, I like you know, any other normal human being would be like, I have reduced my partner two tears. Yeah, I think it's time to manage some boundaries. Yeah, time to take a beat. Yeah, I think I think we've gone a bit too far there. Nope. Nope. I was I was ready to just go in again. Um, so yeah, there's a lot of that negativity, and then as soon as the hormone replacement therapy, oh my gosh, tell me about the transformation with you.
Antoinette:I remember this so vividly, I will never forget this day of my life. This beautiful doctor that I've been seeing said, there's no question about it, you are eligible for HRT. Um, so let's begin the treatment. Um, she said, This is gonna make a world of difference for you. And honestly, at that point, I didn't believe anything was gonna work. I thought, this is it, this is my life, I'm just gonna be miserable forever, and I have to deal with it. But I remember day four. I woke up and I was feeling joy. Yes, just to be alive, just to see my children running around the house. Yes, I actually put on this amazing colorful dress that I've never worn for a very long time because I wanted to wear color. I felt bright. Yes, life felt brighter. There was a buzz within me, like I was excited to just begin the day.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah.
Antoinette:And I said, okay, this is what everyone's been talking about. This joy is coming back. Yes.
Amra Pajalic:I remember we were talking to each other because you were like, because we we actually talked about the fact that we felt so gray. Yeah. We were feeling so gray. Yeah. And just completely like disconnected from everything. And then we were like, I I don't feel grey anymore. No. And then that joy and that feeling came back. Yes. Feeling like who we were, feeling like who we were meant to be, the patience, the resilience, oh yeah, the calm.
Antoinette:The calm. Oh, the calm. The calm. Because I hadn't felt that calm in such a long time. Yes. I felt balanced. Yes. I felt serene. I felt feminine.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah. I felt feminine again. Because when you feel like, because like for me with the skin and the itchiness, yeah, and then losing the libido and then the grey, um yeah, I didn't feel good in my body. I just constantly felt uncomfortable. And um just being who I am just felt really uncomfortable. And then as the skin just came back, like it started feeling soft. It started feeling feminine. Yeah, yeah, because I'm getting all these red scabs. Yeah. Like, and and itchiness, and and like I was so itchy, I could not stop scratching, like my back was bloody. I I had like scratch marks everywhere. Yeah, it was horrible. Um, and then just feeling that, like, but what I'm feeling now, and I'm wondering if you're feeling the same, you feel that serenity and that joy, the resilience is bad, but also zero F stick in.
Antoinette:I was gonna say, it's so joyful. I was gonna say that is one, I guess, symptom that comes with this. That you know, it's a positive because you do get to a place where you have this clarity. Yes. And you found clarity around people, around situations, circumstances, and you you're in like an unbothered energy. Yes. But you can't. Yeah.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah. Yeah. Because I I used to um because I couldn't look, I would I would say everything, I would talk and I mean I'm still like I share a lot, and I don't feel embarrassed about that. Yeah, it's who I am, and I find that it serves me well because I have amazing connections with people, because I am able to share, and also I'm able to be in the moment with people. Yeah. Especially with trauma. Like, you know, a lot of people are not good with trauma. I can I can be in the moment with people. But I I used to spend so much time thinking about what I said and what I did, and I'm embarrassed about that. And oh God, you're so stupid. Why did you say that? Why did you do that? It's so stressful. It's so stressful. Yeah, it's so stressful, and that's gone. Yeah. And it's just amazing the silence in my brain, and now I'm able to fill it with so many more positive things because that space that was there to constantly like, but what about this? But what about that? And you didn't do this, you didn't do that, that's gone. Yeah. And also um just that clarity around people where you're like, because I, you know, grew up with mama who had bipolar. And so I meet mentally ill people are very familiar to me. Yeah. And so I had a lot of people in my life who were very chaotic, who were very, you know, um, a lot of emotions, a lot, a lot going on. And that felt very familiar. But the problem is when you are in in that you attract it. Yeah, you're in you're just constant, it's constant drama. Constant drama and constant drama. Yeah. And now I'm just at the other end of it, I'm like, I want people who give me calm, who uplift me. Yes. If it doesn't serve me, I'm not going there. And I'm also able to recognize when I'm sort of starting to fall for the charming psychopaths again and starting to fall into that pattern and go, no, step back, step back.
Antoinette:So really setting those boundaries for yourself, protect protecting ourselves. I think we become more self protective.
Amra Pajalic:Yes, and sort of thinking our time is worth it. Yeah. We don't have that much time. Correct. How much time do we have? What are we doing with it? But it is precious and we want to spend it with time with people that really give us that joy and those good experiences. Yeah. And obviously, we're still there for our friends who are going through difficult times. Of course. Because, you know, we know that everyone does. Yes. But we're just not putting ourselves in the path of, you know, victims, childling psychopaths, um, energy vampires. Energy vampires. Exactly.
Antoinette:Energy vampires is a big one. Energy vampires. And you know, I think I didn't before all of this happened to me, I didn't recognize energy vampires. Yes. And I would give a lot of my time to the wrong people. Yes. And now I see it so clearly.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah. And my definition of energy vampires are those people who just take and take and take, never ask you who you are. No. Never check in with you. Um, you're just the audience. Yeah. And then as soon as they're done, they move on, and you're just kind of left depleted. And like, I just put in a lot of energy into supporting you, into trying to have that empathy for you. And you have just been like, oh, a new audience now.
Antoinette:They basically just used us for emotional support. Yeah. Gotten what they wanted emotionally. And then, okay, see ya.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah. And I'm actually like now developing really good strategies where I had a situation recently where I was having a conversation with someone who falls into a little bit of these categories. And um I I gave them the moment, I listened, I responded, and then as I left, they were like, oh, we'll we'll do this. And I went, uh-huh, uh-huh. But I left and I went, no, because I'm like, that is as much patience and energy as I want to put into this situation. I'm not going to open the door to that in my life because I've finally cleaned that out. You know, um, and so these these are the things that really, really matter. Yeah. Um, so I just I think we I think we've covered a lot of the things that I've sort of wanted to talk about, but I just also wanted to really talk more about the medical treatment. Um and, you know, the fact that so many women strong. But we also had conversations with women, like there were there were a lot of things that we didn't know about. Like, you know, we were talking to people who have done medical marijuana because of um incredible depression, and you know, but also a lot of these people, then when they started the hormone replacement therapy, they realized that was the that was the answer. That was the answer. Yeah that was what it was. And you know, like a lot of people are like, oh, uh, it's not natural, and it actually is. It is natural.
Antoinette:Yeah, well, what are your thoughts on that? My thoughts are that um hormone replacement therapy is yeah, like we said, it is natural. Yes, it's it's giving us back the estrogen. It's back the estrogen that we naturally will produce. Yes, that we no longer can. Yes. Um, and that is the answer to all these problems.
Amra Pajalic:It really is. Yeah. Because, you know, apart from the psychosis and the antipsychotic, the um estradiol, yeah, it's it's taking care of all of my issues. Yes. And I am now at the point, I remember being sick, I had um an infection, and as you do when you're that tired and you don't have a shower and routines fall out. And so for me, I put it on uh as soon as I step out of the shower. And so I I didn't put it on for two days. And I started getting grisly. So you knew straight away? I did it, but my husband was like, Have you been using your hormone replacement therapy? I had to think and I went, Oh no, but actually, I haven't put it on for two days. Go upstairs. Go do it right now. Do it right now, and then my daughter was like, Mom, God, I was like, Oh, I'll do it in a minute when I have shut the door, no, yeah, go do it right now. And I went, Oh my god.
Antoinette:And I think that's the true thing where it's like, wow, you know, if other people have noticed the difference it's making to your life, yeah, that's huge. Yes. And yeah, I think, you know, I've heard from so many women who are trying all these different alternatives, and it's taken them years and years and years to realize that hormone replacement therapy is the only answer. It's the only thing that works. It is.
Amra Pajalic:And what I find really frustrating at this point is how men have so much more uh into in the ways of alternatives and acceptable treatments. Oh, you know, um erectile dysfunction Viagra was invented. Um, prostate exams are invasive. Oh, we'll find a nice blood test for you. You know, and and for us as women, it's always takes so much longer. So much longer because there's so much more less funding. And even um, I was listening to recently on social media where it's like um there's a law introduced or or they're now going to be doing female crash test dummies to test cars and impact of crashes for women. So up until now, when they are designing seatbelts, which makes sense, doesn't it? Don't you always feel like the seatbelt cuts into you? Oh, I hate the seatbelt. Yeah, it feels so uncomfortable.
Antoinette:Like it serves a purpose, but it is uncomfortable.
Amra Pajalic:Yes, and we end up with more injuries than men because of the fact that it's, you know, and like we're finding so much misogyny in medicine in terms of the menopause treatment that um GPs get, uh, and then also the journey of what we go through. Yeah.
Antoinette:It's really frustrating. Like sometimes you know, it's so heavy, this topic. I don't even know what to say anymore sometimes. It's just I feel really sad, angry, and upset for us women and what we have to go through, how hard we have to fight to get some support.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah. And the thing for me that is really concerning is like we as women just power through. We do. And power through. So if we are at our GP going, I'm not okay, I'm not okay. Yeah, um, being dismissed. Yeah. Why why are they and then like I was listening recently to a um GP social media follower, uh social media um someone that I follow on social media, and she she does a lot of advocacy, and she said, you know, we we used to call them uh whiny women. They were the whiny women in their 40s, 50s who were like something is wrong, something is wrong, but you do all the tests and nothing is wrong, nothing is wrong.
Antoinette:But it's like, no, something is wrong. Yes, when we say something is wrong, trust us, listen to us. Because our intuition is second to none. Yes. Especially during this phase of our life.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah, and also as women, like you know, we go through the monthly um, you know, periods, we go through a lot of pain. Like I love watching on social media when men put on the pet uh period uh cramps. I feel so vindicated. I know. I feel so vindicated, and they're falling to the ground and then they put it on a woman, and the woman's like, yeah, and not even responding. Like, you know, if we are saying that something is not right, something is not right. Yes, because we can persevere through a lot. Yes, and we have because you know, my periods have always been the bane of my existence. Um, I actually think I had endometriosis when I was young. Um, and so yeah, like it has everything to do with my reproductive system has been a big fire. You know, I had trouble getting pregnant, trouble staying pregnant, uh sick during pregnancy, postnatal depression, like the works. The works, you know, everything to do with my reproductive system, and then and then the psychosis during parameters. Oh my gosh.
Antoinette:And you're probably just thinking, like, when is it when does it end?
Amra Pajalic:Yes, yeah.
Antoinette:We go through so much. Yes, we really do.
Amra Pajalic:And now with the whole my replacement therapy, I'm not gonna take it until like I'm on my deathbed. Like I'm I'm gonna keep taking it. No one is taking it away from me. I will never stop. No, no, because after the the hardship and the everyday struggle, it's like I don't know. Yeah. Like why would I put myself through that?
Antoinette:Yeah, mentally, why would we want to put myself through that?
Amra Pajalic:We're so fortunate in Australia, it's only like one dollar a day.
Antoinette:Oh my god, it's amazing. Yeah, one dollar a day affordable. Yes, and it is the best thing you'll ever do.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah.
Antoinette:If you are going through menopause.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah.
Antoinette:And then I also think too a lot about how the uh, you know, the links there are to things like osteoporosis and heart disease, how much more vulnerable and at risk are we of all these other illnesses? Yes. Um, it's just it's incredible.
Amra Pajalic:And as soon as you start taking a hormone replacement therapy, how much you're lowering you're lowering that risk. Yeah. And even now they're starting to find correlations between um like a lowered risk of breast cancer. Yeah. If you are because of the the uh estradioline, the progesterone that's being used, but just all of the other health issues. Because that's the other thing. Like I do have a predisposition because of my genetic history. Yeah. So I am um diabetic and I am on blood pressure medication also. Um, and that was also because of the perimenopause. As my estrogen went down, those things came into play.
Antoinette:I had the same issue being pre-diabetic. And it was genetic for me as well. Um, but I had no idea that it was linked to hormone imbalance.
Amra Pajalic:Yes. Yeah. And so for me, I'm I'm having to take the medication and I'm okay with it because I've found out that dementia is actually type 3 diabetes. Wow. And that the high sugar um contributes to brain dec decline. And so I'm like, no, I'm taking the medication. And obviously, you know, like I still exercise and I try and eat healthy, and I would like to uh be able to do it through the health aspect, but when you go through perimenopause, um you can't just exercise it away. Like there is uh a lot happening changing within. Yeah. And I mean, I I did an interview with my friend Veronica, who is um a uh, you know, trains and she's like a fitness. And she has got immaculate bloods, even though she's got the same history as we do. Yeah. Um, but she's got immaculate bloods, but you know, like she does meal preps every day, like hours and hours of meal preps, and she weighs her protein and she weighs her veggies, and that's wonderful that that's you know, but that that's her salvation. But I'm like, no, I ain't doing that.
Antoinette:We just have to find what works for us.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that's right. Now I just wanted to make sure in terms of um your condition, how can women sort of learn about it or know whether they've got it? What are some signs apart from that going into perimenopause? Is there anything that that um can be like, you know, something that that it might put you on that path?
Antoinette:Well, the thing is with POI, premature ovarian insufficiency, it's very rare. There's only one percent of the population who have this. Wow. And I'm so lucky. I know, I know when my doctor told me this, I remember I'm so blessed. Of course I'm not. Not the lotto. Did you put the lotto? Um yeah, so I feel like there's not enough awareness about this. There's enough, I think we're getting better in terms of talking about perimenopause and menopause, and there's, you know, lots of different social media pages and websites, and there is more awareness and education there. But in terms of POI, there's not much. I've tried to look for um pages or communities and I find nothing. Um, so really, if it wasn't for my GP or the Australasian Mentipour Society, I would know nothing about this.
Amra Pajalic:Oh. So I guess the only thing that we can say to women is if you are feeling some of the things that we talk today in terms of the changes in the mood and not feeling like yourself and then all of those physical doesn't matter what your age is. Sorry. Um go to in Australia, there's the Australasian Society of Menopause. If you're elsewhere, find some sort of a society that is uh menopause and find someone who is actually trained in it, um, who can actually talk to you about the hormone replacement therapy and see, like do the testing that you need to do. Because even with me, I found my GP um and we started sort of like I had to do some testing and I had to do pelvic exams and all these things. Oh, that too. And the and the um breast screening. Yes. Yeah. So it took a little while for me to get the hormone replacement therapy, and she was also trying to like um get my diabetes a little bit more under control in my yeah. And I felt like I still suffered too long. Like I still felt like it stretched out too long because then by the time I got to it, I was like, oh my gosh, this I suffered for so many more months.
Antoinette:Yep. I found felt the same actually because when I did find this beautiful doctor I'm working with now, it still took a good month for me to get results from other testings and bone density scans and you know, all sorts of different tests before she could actually say, okay, you are um a candidate for HRT.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah.
Antoinette:So it does, I don't know, something needs to change there.
Amra Pajalic:Yes.
Antoinette:Um because we are still being delayed of the treatment and the support that we need.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah, and and just the way it wears you down. Because I I went to my doctor and I said, look, if this continues for much longer, I'm not going to be married, I'm not going to be a teacher, and I'm not going to have many friends left. Because, you know, that that lack of patience and that irritability is with everyone. It is. I mean, it's with yourself too. Yes. Like you're irritated with yourself.
Antoinette:Yeah, we're we're at our wit's end with ourselves.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah, but then everybody, and it it is just like because it feels like your whole body, it's almost like a heartbeat, like your whole body is vibrating, and you are just, I don't know, in this altered state. I didn't even feel like I could sit.
Antoinette:Oh, you just you don't know what to do. Sit, stand, yell, scream, cry. Sometimes I felt like I was screaming into the abyss and no one was bloody listening. No. And it's just like oh you feel isolated. Yeah. So isolated.
Amra Pajalic:And for me, because I like in my family, there is a history of suicide. Yeah. And when I started sort of getting that dark, and I was like, I've never been this dark. I have never kind of gone there and ever thought, time out, I'm done. Um but like when when things sort of started getting a little bit there, where I'm like, is this worth is this worth it? You really like it, it's very scary. And we both know women who have actually been pushed to the edge. Yeah. Um, you know, who who were like, either you do something now for me or I'm I'm done.
Antoinette:Yeah, I'm I'm done. It's just really upsetting that we have to fight that hard when we're already so tired. Yeah. And yeah, I I just I hope that there's a shift in that for future menopause or women. Yes.
Amra Pajalic:Because it's exhausting. It really is. And like that's the other thing. Like you feel already so exhausted because your body is fighting, your brain is fighting, and then you're having to fight the system, and you're having to fight to be heard, and you're having to fight to be like, no, I'm not okay. Yes. This really I am not okay. I'm not a whingy woman. Yeah, you know? Yeah. Yeah, I know, I don't know. It's it's really um horrible. Um, so I think one of the things also is like, you know, when we think about women who are going through this, what what do we think of some things that can happen? I mean, obviously, us talking and sharing, I think.
Antoinette:Yeah, like it's really good that we are starting to talk more about it. And women who are going through this are finding each other, we're building our own little communities. Yeah. But I think what I would like to see is things shifting in the workplace for us because as we were saying earlier, the cognitive impact this has on us is huge. And performing simple daily tasks in your job becomes impossible some days. And yes, you know, just like we recognize things like pregnancy and mental illnesses in the workplace, you know, they can be limiting. Mention can be limiting too. Yes.
Amra Pajalic:And yeah, and I've had conversations um about the ageism where we kind of younger people get irritated with us and snappy with us and like think and just do it and just come on. Yes. And it's like, well, no. Um we need to process, we need to, we need a moment. We need a minute. Yeah, and and so there is, and like most of us, like with you, you you're very young, but with a lot of us, you know, when we're when we're at that age, that there is that element of ageism creeping in. Yes, there is. And you're like, you're the dotty woman, and it's like, well, yes, I am a dotty woman, but this is not because like just like when when I was pregnant and I had baby brain, that's right, and the hormones were screwed with me. Yeah, this is exactly the same thing.
Antoinette:This is exactly the same. That's what I was saying to myself. Like, I was really thinking about, you know, what do I want to see for the future? And I want this to be recognized, like pregnancy and mental illnesses. Yeah. Because we do need that minute to process. We do need people to be patient with us. Yes. And understand and have that awareness.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah, and sometimes like I've I've had to like walk out of me, for example, you know, because I can feel myself like now I'm much, much better. Yeah. But I remember at the height I could not sit into in rooms where everything was so loud and just it felt like a baby. Battering me. And I had to leave and get away. Um, yeah, and just it it all felt so overwhelming.
Antoinette:I found too that I probably took more days off than I ever did during that time because I just would wake up and go, nope, I'm not doing people today. I cannot do people. I cannot do noise. Yes. And I really didn't realise at the time what was happening, but now that I'm aware, you realize just how sensitive you are to everything.
Amra Pajalic:And we work in a school with 2,000 uh like 800, 1800 students and 200 staff. Yep. And they put us in a staff meeting with, you know, uh over a hundred people in the one room, all talking and having, you know, reflections and the noise is spectacular. Yeah, it's next level. Yeah, and then walking down the corridors um during break time. Yes, and the bell and the music and the screaming kids. Yes, yes, it really is a lot, and that's why I was like, I'm not gonna be able to teach for much longer because where I was and what that was doing to me, it it was really difficult. And so there is some recognition now where some workplaces are doing more training um and more support, but we do need to do more of that. Yes. And I just also sort of, yeah, younger workers, you know, women and men, it's coming for you.
Antoinette:I was going to say that, yes. Yes because I, you know, have had some comments about, you know, this stage of life and my age and from other women who are younger, and I just think, you know what? It's gonna come for you. And when it does, yeah, good luck.
Amra Pajalic:Meant too. Meant too. If you happen to have women in your life, which I think all men do, even if they're gay um and they're partnered with a man, they will still have some woman in their life. I'm going through this. Yeah, but if you are partnered with a woman, um, you will experience this. And I can tell you, my husband did not enjoy it. Uh, he suffered. He actually has said he's like, I I suffered just as much as you did. I'm like, I deny as much, but I do acknowledge. Acknowledge when he would have gone back. That we've suffered, yeah. Because, and honestly, my marriage, because you can't be in a partnership with someone when you have nothing, when you have no ability to be patient, to be empathetic, to be for them. Um, and like even there's a lot of these things showing up on social media about um husbands, you know, they're breathing, they're breathing funny.
Antoinette:Yes, like that's what happens. Yeah, just the simplest thing. Yeah, oh God, get away from me.
Amra Pajalic:Yes. Like I've got a friend who um closing of the door, so he slams the door, and it's like, oh, oh, it's it's getting to that point. Because like those things become so amplified.
Antoinette:Oh, it is, yeah.
Amra Pajalic:And you've got one part of your brain going, You're psycho, you could be completely psycho.
Antoinette:Yeah, but you can't stop. No, you cannot control it.
Amra Pajalic:It's it is like a mental, completely like a mental breakdown where like your your brain is playing tricks on you, is doing things to you. Yeah. And honestly, the hormone replacement therapy is the medicine. Because as soon as I got on, and I've had this conversation with so many women, as soon as they started it, just like for me, it felt like my brain was not on fire anymore, my body was not on fire anymore.
Antoinette:When it kicks in, I can't explain that feeling. No, it was one of the best days of my life. That sounds dramatic. No, but even the sleeping where you're like, oh my god, this is sort of feeling. Ever since taking HRT, I sleep like a baby. Yes. Because you lose that ability to go into that deep sleep.
Amra Pajalic:Yes. And so, you know, you're just constantly waking up. It's like those early days of when you have a newborn. Yes. And you're just constantly waking up and you're on alert and you're like, I don't know why I'm an alert. Yep. But I've got an adrenaline surge now, uh, something's going on, and then you need to go snack. Because you've gone through the whole cycle of adrenaline and the cortisol, and then it's like, and now I need to go have a s it's just a crazy, crazy time. Which which doesn't help because then that sets off other things. Exactly. But it's just this whole cycle, whereas now it's like, oh, this is what it's like to have a deep sleep and to wake up and feel okay.
Antoinette:And not wake up in a pool of sweat as well, because the night sweats were also not pleasant.
Amra Pajalic:Oh my gosh, changing of clothes and just being so uncomfortable, but so tired. But so tired. And then you're like, oh my god, I've got to deal with this. Yeah. But I'm I'm like, you know, and then the way it sits off your whole body, and then you have to try and calm it down again. Yeah. It's a lot.
Antoinette:It really um it's debilitating. Yeah. I found that I had to cancel a lot of social outings and um events that I had on because I wouldn't sleep. I would be waking up in a pool of sweat. And like you said, that rage you get from that those flushes.
Amra Pajalic:I I was just I I couldn't be around people. No, no, I found the saying. Yeah. I sort of went into imposed lockdown. Yeah. Where I was like, I I can't people, I don't like you're constantly canceling even with friends. Yes. Well you're like, I really love you, but I just I can't, and I don't want to. And I had so many Duna days and I would just be in bed and just like I don't want to do anything. Which I did too. I you know, I don't want to, like, yeah, you you just feel sad. And you know, I even remember my husband trying to like get me out of bed and I'm like, and crying, just so much crying.
Antoinette:Oh, the crying. I you know, I I can shed a tear here and there if something really impacts me. But I found that I was crying, and when I say crying, sobbing, howling, yes, over the sickest things. Yes, it was just something I've never experienced before.
Amra Pajalic:No, I actually had to tell my daughter, I'm like, if you see me, just walk past me. Yeah, just leave me because I can't, I just have to let that happen. You just have to let it run. And and go through it. Uh, and I'm like, just don't bother trying to because they can't comfort you. No one can comfort you. But in that moment you feel like the world is ending, there's no hope, everything is bleak, it's the end. Yeah. And then eventually you're kind of like, okay, let's just try and and you know, but then you're so exhausted. Oh wow. But anyway, you you you kind of fight through. Yeah. Um, but now we are full of joy and we are very happy. So hormone replacement. Thanks to HRT. Yes, absolutely. Um, yeah, so uh this question that I think would be really great for us to close on. Okay. So for our daughters, what do we want them to know that we didn't?
Antoinette:I want them to know that if something is off, trust your instincts, don't gaslight yourself and tell yourself this is normal.
Amra Pajalic:Yes.
Antoinette:Speak up. Find a really good support network. Find a really good GP and advocate for yourself. Yes. Because you're right. Yes, you're always right. Yeah. Your gut is always right.
Amra Pajalic:Yeah. And you know, everyone, every woman will go through this. The degree to which your body will go through this is something that only you will know when you go through it. And you might get clues from the women in your family. Um, or you might not. You know, it is very variable. Um, but every woman will definitively, every woman with ovaries will go through this. Yes. It's just a matter of when.
Antoinette:Yes.
Amra Pajalic:And so it's just um trying to have that information and just sort of know as much. Be informed. Yeah, be informed because that's that's also the difficult thing that we we struggled with. Yeah. Knowing where to go, where to get help, what to do. And then also, you know, I I had um because we were of the generation where hormone replacement therapy had such a bad name. I was like, oh my god, breast cancer, breast cancer, no, no, no, breast cancer. And even I have a friend who um has had cysts and is kind of at risk in one sense with breast cancer, and so they were hesitant to give her hormone replacement therapy, and she got to the point where she said, I don't care. I at this point my quality of life is so bad. It's about quality of life in the percentage and the possibility of men getting breast cancer does not present as much of a fear, yeah, because at this point, like she was she was at that point where she was suicidal, where she's like, I'm not gonna be here for much longer, so it makes no difference. Yeah, yeah. And when the doctors heard that, they were like, Oh, oh. And up until then, they were like, Oh, we have to do this and we have to do that, and just kind of making her go through all these hoops and trying to sort of put her off. Um, and when she reached that point, they were like, Oh, okay, yeah. So, thank you so much for coming to talk to me about this. I hope that women hear these episodes and that they get help. I'm going to provide some links for places you can go to get support and people that I'm following that I'm finding really helpful. Yeah. Um, and yeah, we hope that we can have um a better and more informed menopause journey. That's our plan. Yeah, so thank you. Thank you for tuning in to Amara's armchair anecdotes. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe and follow for more insights, stories, and inspiration. From my armchair to yours, remember every story begins with a single word.